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gingrich shut the government down and bill clinton was president. bill clinton won that hands down. and look, the one thing that i think michael and i agree on and the people in the campaign to fix the debt and simpson bowes, is we're not going to fix our problem, rev, by who wins political battles. if the republican party wants to eat itself alive, sure it will make them happy but you'll lose suburban cleveland, suburban philadelphia, sub suburban st. s and places like that. they're going to go down. what good does it do if they lose control of the house in 2014? it seems to me to be a death wish. >> well, michael, you were chair of the republican party and clearly this is politically damaging if, in fact, they go through with it. congress u under republican control, is now less popular than root canals, replacement reves, cockroaches and don trump. i mean, as a chairman of a party, you chaired it when they had the great midterm election. can you now come back to a party that is less popular than cockroaches? and root canal and tell them you really don't want to do this? >> look,
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